tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post1547997830930179616..comments2024-03-08T23:57:17.923+02:00Comments on Achas L'Maala V'Sheva L'Matta: Mending the BreechYechezkel Hirshmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18417734718880643428noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post-38105149692266638622018-10-23T22:30:02.141+03:002018-10-23T22:30:02.141+03:00>>"By the way, do you really mean to sa...>>"By the way, do you really mean to say that something said in an aggadic portion of Talmud is called "having no halachic basis?"<<<br /><br />By "Halachic basis" I mean both Halacha and aggadata. The Aggada does not expressly say that a 20 year old is exempt except for the discussion between HKBH and Yitzchak Avinu in Shabbos 89b. But the question is: What is the basis for Yitzchak Avinu's assertion? There is no independent source for this.Yechezkel Hirshmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18417734718880643428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post-80866868271078447472009-01-06T15:56:00.000+02:002009-01-06T15:56:00.000+02:00By the way, do you really mean to say that somethi...By the way, do you really mean to say that something said in an aggadic portion of Talmud is called "having no halachic basis?"Bruce Krulwichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16506129141459374630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post-86341090810702409062009-01-06T10:30:00.000+02:002009-01-06T10:30:00.000+02:00First, according to the midrash that Osnat was Bat...First, according to the midrash that Osnat was Bat Dina, then Efraim and Menashe are added to the list of Yaakov great-grandchildren at the time of the yerida, even though they themselves didn't go down (as they were already there).<BR/><BR/>Second, I've read be'shem the Gur Aryeh (Maharal) the opposite of what you posit here: that Bais Din Shel Mata punishes the Ben Sorer u'Moreh because they ARE empowered to punish based on the future, but the Bais Din Shel Maala judges "ka'asher hu sham" and does not punish based on the future, because the BDshM takes into account the possibility of teshuva.<BR/><BR/>That said, I think your approach might still work, if you can explain why Ehr and Onan's punishment was davka a shel mata punishment.Bruce Krulwichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16506129141459374630noreply@blogger.com