tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post9202647378733203147..comments2024-03-08T23:57:17.923+02:00Comments on Achas L'Maala V'Sheva L'Matta: Weighing the F[a]C[ts]Yechezkel Hirshmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18417734718880643428noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post-80833759327951890572009-07-17T14:39:54.189+03:002009-07-17T14:39:54.189+03:00What about the dybuk before 3 years??What about the dybuk before 3 years??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post-61514797269914147802009-07-17T08:32:55.500+03:002009-07-17T08:32:55.500+03:00Also:
"Her mother had no incentive to get inv...Also:<br />"Her mother had no incentive to get involved in FC for religous purposes."<br />but her mother had incentive to think that her child loved and appreciated her. the first communication from Galia began "Ima, I love you." Regardless of the religious message, she had an emotional need, and incentive, to believe the communications to be real. Just like Arthur Goldin has this incentive.<br /><br />also:<br />"Any FC not conforming to the desired message would be rightfully suppressed"<br />"As for your last paragraph, it is obviously a presumption based on your conjecture - IF they are saying things that don't conform... (i.e. conjecture), THEN those FCs would be suppressed (i.e., presumption)."<br />in answer: they revamped the dani18 website taking out a false prediction that there would be no Israeli elections. when confronted, they claimed they were cleaning it up to match the content of the leaflets, and anyway, the autistic did not mean it as a real prediction.<br /><br />they had one autistic counsel not to publish the FCs done by (iirc) the family and apart from the specific regular facilitator, because the contents of these messages would confuse people. (i would guess because a different facilitator would subconsciously convey thoughts which contradicted the thoughts expressed in the other published messages.) this is still presumption and conjecture, but there is quite a lot to back this presumption. and you were likely unaware of this, and other major facts.<br /><br />"The people who are involved, stand by it. Those who scoff, are removed from it. You have to assume that a good many people (who you don't know) who are respected by those who do know them as trustworthy - are lying. Not that they are decieved and misled, but that they are lying - through their teeth. You have to assume that Galia's mother is a fraud and is lying to everybody."<br />no, you don't. you just have to accept the scientific explanation of the ideomotor effect; and that these trustworthy people are unfortunately as ignorant as you about the science of it, and believe the evidence presented to their own eyes.<br /><br />there is so much more i could write, but i'll have to hold back. i wrote so much already, i don't know if you will read any of it. it really amounts to Zil Gmor, but i think you will find a way to rationalize anything that you do learn.<br /><br />kol tuv,<br />joshjoshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7186734097245460670.post-77676423589991112702009-07-17T08:32:48.710+03:002009-07-17T08:32:48.710+03:00bli neder, i may respond to other points, but when...bli neder, i may respond to other points, but when you write <br />"What impresses me is the story of Galia"<br />do you know that Galia purportedly was communicating while ASLEEP?!<br />http://www.signsfromheaven.com/files/Eng_Right04.html<br /><br />her mother writes:<br /> One day Galia fell asleep in the middle of a session but her hand continued to write. I asked her, “Galia, how can it be that you’re sleeping and your hand continues to write?” She wrote back, “Mum, you’re communicating with my soul, and souls never sleep.” <br /><br />I communicate with Galia through her soul, not through her intellect. Her intellect is that of a five-month-old infant.<br /><br />End quote.<br />You cannot be on the fence here saying that they are surely communicating but that you don't know if they are clairvoyant and know heavenly secrets. If you believe Galia communicated while asleep (and not the rational, SANE explanation that the facilitator was accidentally communicating and continued despite Galia falling asleep), then you must believe she is clairvoyant.<br /><br />similarly, as they testify, Ben answered questions before the facilitator asked it (but while the facilitator knew it). they answer the obvious objection that it was the facilitator subconsciously communicating by having Ben say that he is telepathic. This is in the FC.<br /><br />So this middle ground that you write that "In fact, FC itself is no myth. Autistics CAN communicate. It is well documented (check You Tube)." besides being ignorant (because I've seen videos; and some can be the facilitators communicating, and because there is a difference between high functioning and low-functioning autistics) is simply false. if you accept Ben and Galia (and Daniel, a low-functioning autistic like Galia), you are accepting them as clairvoyant.<br /><br />it is unfortunate that you have chosen to cast it as a chareidi vs. kofer issue. Rav Shlomo Zalman Aurbach, who knew much better than you, and I believe was also chareidi, was asked about the FC messages and said that one must first determine whether they are able to and can send these messages, and only then should we evaluate the contents of the messages. and the doctor he assigned to investigate came back with it being junk-science.<br /><br />if you look in the book from Galia, at all the haskamos, they all give two requirements which have been violated by the present-day autistics. Namely that one should rely on them for mussar but not on practical advice or about the future. Yet this is what they dispense, alongside their heavy helping of mussar. That Obama is Gog, and an evil messenger sent from heaven, and so people should (practical advice here) flee America. The Gedolim who granted haskamos wrote that one should consult with one's rav before taking action, because rabbis are our leaders, not autistics, and meanwhile these autistics degrade rabbis who disagree with them. They have greatly overstepped their original mandate, and the hamon am is following them in this; and you are promoting them and their message.<br /><br />Also:<br />"Motive - I personally have nothing to gain from what I am doing in promoting the "word of G-d"."<br />As you yourself wrote, you know the Goldins personally and don't want to think them as reshaim, or as misled.joshwaxmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05149022516101476797noreply@blogger.com