Who dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima
and what was the date?
If you answered the US Air Force on August 6, 1945 I
will give you partial credit but it’s not the true answer. Let’s think out of
the box.
The gemara in Sanhedrin 95a refers us to a pasuk in
Shmuel B 21:16:
וישבו (וְיִשְׁבִּי) בְּנֹב אֲשֶׁר בִּילִידֵי הָרָפָה,
וּמִשְׁקַל קֵינוֹ שְׁלֹשׁ מֵאוֹת מִשְׁקַל נְחֹשֶׁת, וְהוּא, חָגוּר חֲדָשָׁה;
וַיֹּאמֶר, לְהַכּוֹת אֶת-דָּוִד.
And Yishbi of Nov who was from the offspring of Harpa
(Orpa) and the weight of his spear was 300 weights of copper…and he sought to
smite Dovid.
The gemara explains that HKBH said to Dovid HaMelech:
“How long must this sin be concealed in your hands? By your
hand (on your account) was destroyed Nov the city of Kohanim, by your
hand Doeg HaAdomi was banished, and by your hand Shaul
and his three sons perished. Would you prefer that your offspring be eradicated
or that you be surrendered into the hands of your enemy?”
How special. We don’t all get to choose our destiny!
In any case, Rashi explains that “this sin” is
referring to the sin of Nov. This sin was an act of gneivas daas. Dovid
was on the run from Shaul and he reached the city of Nov where the Mishkan was.
He requested from the Kohanim of Nov to give him bread and a sword as an
emissary of Shaul when, in actuality, he was a fugitive from Shaul and his men.
This had quite a backlash as Shaul’s Chief of Staff, Doeg HaAdomi, accused all
of the Kohanim of sedition (mored b’malchus) and, by his word, Shaul ordered
them all to be executed. As a result, Doeg, who was known as the “chief of the
shepherds” – i.e., the head of all Roshei Yeshiva (the Gadol HaDor) – was banished from Olam
Habah and Shaul and his sons died an inglorious death at the hands of the
Plishtim.
HKBH is calling Dovid HaMelech responsible for all of
these calamities. Not only for the inadvertent destruction of the city and the Kohanim,
but even for the doubly inadvertent banishment of Doeg and the deaths of Shaul
and his sons.
Of course, Dovid HaMelech did not kill anybody. His
only “sin” was not telling Achimelech that he was a fugitive. Shaul and Doeg
killed the Kohanim and, for this, they met their doom. It was their fault, not
Dovid’s. In fact, Dovid’s gneivas daas was a clear matter of pikuach
nefesh. And why was he on the run to start with?
Well, Shmuel HaNavi anointed him as the King of Israel
while the sitting king, Shaul, was still on the throne. This is usually not a
very good idea. Could be hazardous to one’s health. Besides, Dovid wasn’t
really interested in the job. He had lots of big brothers who were capable
fellows. It’s just that Shmuel HaNavi had
his number and he needed to make an early exit from our world so he wasn’t able
to push it off.
All told, Dovid was the most innocent of all of the
characters in this debacle and yet, HKBH put everything on his hands.
Everything. The executions of the Kohanim (also innocent), the banishment of
Doeg (not quite so innocent), and Shaul and his boys (Shaul was the one who
“gave the order”). Everything is on Dovid’s hands. For one little infraction in
a life or death situation!
This gemara is here to teach us a frightening lesson.
Every person can be held accountable, not just for his own actions, but for
what other people – even irresponsible lowlife people – do as a response to his
actions. And if this is so even when his own actions were almost unavoidable at
a time of pikuach nefesh, imagine if the initial player has no excuse of
pikuach nefesh and had every opportunity to avoid it!
And if this applies when the backlash is something
nobody would have anticipated, imagine the responsibility for a repercussion
that one would expect to happen and should have been foreseen.
Of course, we already should have gotten this message
with our mitzvah to bring an eglah arufah as an atonement because, just
perhaps, we did not give a travelling Jew enough encouragement to deal with the
hazards of the road. But this gemara seems to tell us how far this concept really
goes.
When we do something, even if it’s not reckless, we are
responsible at some level for the backlash. And when we are foolhardy and
reckless, even more so!
So, by now you have probably figured out the answer to
our trivia question:
Who dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and what was
the date?
The real answer is that the Japanese Navy did it on
December 7, 1941. Of course, they didn’t realize that they were dropping an
atomic bomb on their own country. There was no such thing as an atomic bomb,
anyway.
But when those atomic bombs came down, they were just
the grand finale of the first conventional bombs that they dropped on Pearl
Harbor. Legend has it (never confirmed) that the Naval Marshal General, Isoroku
Yamamoto, himself acknowledged this with his legendary remark on Dec. 7, 1941: I
fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a
terrible resolve.
The terrible resolve was resolved on August 6, 1945 in
Hiroshima.
When one starts a war, everything that happens as a result,
even to himself, is “by his hand”.
Friends (the few I have left) and relatives ask me why
I continue to write about the Malka Leifer episode. Well, firstly it is a
tremendous Chillul Hashem which I would like to see terminated. But, truly,
this is far from the open-and-shut case that the consumers think it is. There
are things that need to be said and nobody else feels like saying it.
The allegations are for events that allegedly occurred
ten plus years ago and ended then. Only the accusers know what really happened
and to what extent they were victims. But now, nobody is hurting them any more. They are
no longer victims (they call themselves “survivors”). They are currently
accusers and prosecutors. They are on offense. The Leifer camp is now on
defense. The accuser is pursuing the accused.
I have pointed out that, at this stage, the Halacha
does not support this redifa. It is the duty of the public – who have no idea
what to believe – to either butt out or to work to put an end to this redifa
and Chillul Hashem, not to perpetuate it. Anybody who actively or vocally
participates in it has all of the repercussions on their hands.
Moreover, even though one could argue that Mrs. Leifer
and her activities are the catalyst for what’s going on now, this war of extradition
and prosecution was really started sometime in 2011 when the JAPs walked into
the Victorian police station and filed a criminal complaint against a Jew who
has been in Eretz Yisrael for a good three years.
This war is starting to get very ugly, as most wars do.
Let’s have a quick look at one of the most recent posts on the BringLeiferBack page:
We receive
constant backlash from those that support Leifer in reaction to this #bringleiferback
campaign.
We can live with that.
But when Leifer’s relatives use my sisters death as proof of their power that is going way way way too far!
We can live with that.
But when Leifer’s relatives use my sisters death as proof of their power that is going way way way too far!
In the
last few days, we have heard that Leifer's family have been calling members of
the Jewish community. They have threatened that unless they sign letters
stating that Leifer was the perfect educator and the sexual abuse has been a
figment of our imagination, “bad things will happen
to them”.
AND THEIR PROOF?? "We told this to someone else, they
didn't listen to us, and they died'.
Absolutely
sickened and horrified.
Interesting. From the way she is relating it, I don’t
know how she knows that the referenced “someone else” is her late sister, A”H. I
will have to assume that the details were more specific in real time. But now,
let’s discuss.
First, the disclaimer. I personally am a total lone
wolf in this drama and have no relationship or connection with anyone from the
Leifer camp. To date, nobody on that side has ever contacted me to say “Thank
you” or “No, thank you”. Nothing. So I have no involvement in these tactics and
I do not condone them. I also think they are a little beneath the belt and can
be called “hot oil”.
Nevertheless, the saying goes: All is fair in love and
war!
This is going way way way too far? Already? My dears, this episode is
far from over and I fear – like Naval Marshal Yamamoto – that you ain’t seen
nothing yet.
The sheer naïveté of these JAPs is so utterly
astounding. Did they think they can start a war with their 2011 Pearl Harbor
attack in Victoria and then go home and sleep peacefully? Did they really think
the Leifer camp, who is on the defense, is not going to fight back? Do they
think this is Columbo? That the bad guy is just going to stick out his hands
for the cuffs and come along quietly?
Goodness! I wrote more than a year ago that these girls
are Flirting with Danger. I wasn’t kidding. There are definitely folks who hadn’t
woken up yet and are now starting to. They may not be such powerful giants but,
who knows who will wake up tomorrow and what they will do?
Incidentally, if this becomes a family feud, I am under the impression that the Leifer family is way bigger than the Sapper family, with some powerful figures, to boot.
Incidentally, if this becomes a family feud, I am under the impression that the Leifer family is way bigger than the Sapper family, with some powerful figures, to boot.
So now Dassi Erlich, the aggressor, is complaining
about hot oil and mustard gas. Does she realize that if it has come to abusing the memory of her late sister that this is by her hand? If Dovid
Hamelech is blamed for the deaths of the “wayward” Doeg and Shaul, can these
JAPs conceive that they are the ones who are violating their late sister? It is
by their hand?
And what will they say when the nukes start to fall?
There’s more. I hate to say it but the dirty tricks did
not start now and they did not start by the Leifer camp.
The JAPs are complaining about the defense tactics that
are “going way way way too far.” You mean to say there are boundaries? You mean
to say that the Sapper camp has any boundaries whatsoever? Not that I can see.
I have been following Dassi’s posts on her Facebook page for well more than a year and all of the suggestions that they get from
“their” supporters that they thank them for. Things such as organizing protests
in front of the court building (not the worst thing) and obstructing funding for
her legal defense so her lawyer cannot do his job as well as to deny her of a
legal defense council - which is essentially obstruction of justice.
The story that really inflamed me was in the comments of her post on March 6, 2018 (there are lots of comments and these are in the "Reply" section of one comment).
It began with a sensible comment from a more objective
reader (and a religious woman) named Shoshana who, at that point was a
supporter of the extradition campaign. She wrote:
At the end of the (say) [day] the most important thing
is that there be a fair trial in Australia and this matter gets resolved …
Okay, a "fair trial". This reasonable comment was immediately countered by
one Nicole Iglicki Gold who wrote:
… “A fair trial in Australia”-who are you kidding? She
doesn’t deserve anything fair. I don’t know these girls but I am human and am
sensitive to their pain…She is a criminal and deserves to be in jail and to
have the key thrown away
Here is a typical commenter who admits that she doesn’t
"know these girls” (the Sapper sisters) which indicates that she certainly
doesn’t know Mrs. Leifer, as well. She doesn’t know anything at all, yet she
"knows" that Mrs. Leifer is an “evil evil lady” and a “criminal” and
“deserves to be in jail and the key thrown away…” Just because Dassi Erlich
said so!
And what does Nichole Sapper Meyer say about the one
who says “she does not deserve anything fair”?
Nichole Meyer: Nicole Iglicki Gold thank you ... your
words mean a lot to us
Get that? Nicole Sapper Meyer thanked the lady who said
“she doesn’t deserve anything fair”. She did not thank Shoshana. Evidently, Nichole Meyer likewise does not
believe that anybody she accuses deserves anything fair!
So it appears that the Sapper sisters want what they
want and don’t believe in playing “fair”. And now Dassi says that when the
Leifers take extreme measures to defend themselves that “that is going way way way too
far!”??
What were
we discussing previously about Double standards??
Now, I do
have something to say in favor of the Leifer camp. I am sure they have seen the
grand proclamation from Rabbi Shmuel Feurst, Shlita and 106 prominent American Rabbanim
which says that:
The Torah's statement in
Leviticus 19:16, "Do not stand by while your neighbor's blood is
shed," obligates every member of the community to do all in one's power to
prevent harm to others.
Now, I
personally wrote that this is really a mistake. It should read “all that is
necessary to prevent harm” and not “all in one’s power to prevent harm” but who
am I to argue with HRHG Rav Shmuel Feurst and 106 American Rabbanim – some of
whom are even my age or older?
As I said
earlier, at this stage of the game, the Sappers are on offense and the Leifers are
on defense. Mrs. Leifer is currently the nirdaf[et]. I
am certain many readers think that Mrs. Leifer’s blood doesn’t qualify for Lo
Taamod (I will abstain for now), but I can say that to her relatives it
certainly does. As such, they have the psak of HRHG Shmuel Feurst and 106 other prominent
Rabbanim who say that not
only are they allowed to do “all that is in their power” but they are obligated
to.
So the
Leifers have a hetter - if not a chiyuv - for their tactics. What hetter do the Sappers have?
And this
is all by their hand.
And what
makes it really bad is that the people who perpetrate this travesty are people
who sport pious beards.
As I have
repeatedly said, this whole episode is one great Chillul Hashem and it is
getting ugly and it will not end well for anybody. It needs to end. And who is
keeping it alive?
Obviously,
the JAPs who started this war are in it till the end. By they cannot do it
without help. Yes, they have thousands of fair weather grandstand supporters
that cheer them on on their Facebook page (and they block out all dissenters).
But they have a little bit more organized help. Consequently, this debacle is
just as much by the hands of these organizations.
Who are
they?
I can name
two very misguided organizations that call themselves Rabbinic.
The first
are my good friends at the Rabbinical Council of Australia and New Zealand
(RCANZ). This organization provides no Jewish services for the community
whatsoever. Its sole raison d’etre is to be a spokesman for the Jewish
community to the outside world on social issues.
Sadly,
these are a group of very liberal Rabbis who put the emotions
of the crowd ahead of the guidelines of the Shulchan Aruch. In a previous post
I mentioned some of the ringleaders: Rabbi Yaakov Glasman, Rabbi Alon Meltzer, Rabbi
James Kennard and Rabbi Benjamin Elton. These are all left-wingers, Modern or Open Orthodox. Into interfaith dialog and LGBTQI rights. They are all younger
than I am so as far as I am concerned, they are a bunch of children pretending to be "Rabbis".
Despite all this, their misguided support has given
some sense of legitimacy to this campaign. Thus, even though it does not look
like they have actively intervened in this controversy, what is happening is by
their hand.
At best, RCANZ will get the Oscar for Best Screenplay Editor.
But the Academy award for Best Supporting Actor goes to…the envelope, please…
Jewish Community Watch!!
Jewish Community Watch is a boiler room operation with
a very impressive web site. As opposed to some of the other more sincere
organizations like Ohel or Amudim who focus on helping victims of abuse, JCW is
not very interested in the victims of abuse. Their primary focus is to hunt
down and prosecute those who they are convinced are molesters. It doesn’t
really matter if they are molesters or not. As long as JCW thinks they are,
there is no line they won’t cross to do them in.
One of their features is their shameless Wall of Shame.
Here they feel they are saving the world by seeing to it that anyone on their
hit list is posted. Now, I have written in my post about the 3 Ps that one of
the most effective tools is indeed, publicity or pirsum. But even this has
limits. It is sufficient to have an online list of known and even potential
predators with a clear description as to where they are holding in their
predatory career, but an officially called Wall of Shame puts everyone in one
basket. It’s not just that some may be true psychopaths and others are not really so,
but also, many have “done their time” and need a chance to rehabilitate
themselves. But what is the worst thing, and indeed applicable in the Malka Leifer
case, not every person on their list is even a confirmed predator.
In most of the WOS entries, JCW puts a little box with
a short description of what the person is guilty of. Often they can write that
X confessed to this or Y was convicted for that. But there are plenty of
exceptions. As an example, one person on the JCW WOS has one small note in his little
box: Convicted in 2012 for possession of child pornography.
Though we may say that this person has a very bad habit
(understatement) and maybe needs to be watched, there is no indication that he ever
harmed or tried to harm a single soul. It is common that people have perverse fantasies and use imagery to gratify themselves but have no intention of crossing the line into predatorship. All of their sins are bein adam L"Makom. And who says that he didn’t get help to
kick the habit? So perhaps he needs to be avoided and there are grounds for awareness,
but why is he a predator and why does he need to be “shamed”??
Incidentally, JCW doesn't have anything on this fellow as of 2012. This was six years ago. What is the Halacha? Is it permissible to shame anybody for something he did in the past but as far as anyone knows is not being done now?
Dovid Hamelech himself gives us the answer in Sanhedrin 107a: One who has engaged in adultery (past tense) is worthy of strangulation but has a place in the World to Come. One who shames one in public, has no portion in the world to come!
Incidentally, JCW doesn't have anything on this fellow as of 2012. This was six years ago. What is the Halacha? Is it permissible to shame anybody for something he did in the past but as far as anyone knows is not being done now?
Dovid Hamelech himself gives us the answer in Sanhedrin 107a: One who has engaged in adultery (past tense) is worthy of strangulation but has a place in the World to Come. One who shames one in public, has no portion in the world to come!
Another person only has: JCW has interviewed multiple people who
recounted sexual abuse… So this person hasn’t been charged or convicted of
anything. We don’t know how many people are “multiple" and how credible they
are. At the end of the day, it is he said/she said. Same thing here, what are the
grounds for “shame”?
But, after these, there are quite a few people that
have no little box at all! At most, some links to some news items which talk of
their unconfirmed allegations. Malka Leifer is in this group. And there were
some that didn’t even have any links! It’s anybody’s guess why they are up
there.
The most irresponsible thing of all is that they have multiple entries for "predators" without posting their picture. Besides the fact that the key shaming that they want to do is to post the villains mug on to the Net for everyone to see, so what do they gain by pictureless posts? But there is a very serious issue here. And let's take one entry as the prime example - a confirmed offender named Avraham Rosenfeld.
There are six Avraham Rosenfelds in the Jerusalem Chareidi phonebook and these are just the married people with phones. And this doesn't include Bnei Brak or Kiryat Sefer or anywhere out of the Jerusalem area. If you don't show his picture, how do we determine the correct Avraham Rosenfeld and avoid mixing him up with the incorrect AR? Do you know how much damage this can cause to totally innocent people?
Let's go one step further and ask what is accomplished with this particular "shaming" (along with many of the others). Is it protecting anybody? Well, as long as this fellow is in jail (as noted), he is not a threat to anybody on the outside. Should he be released from jail, this is still totally worthless because there is no picture of him and not even a place of last residence (and he certainly will not be back in the school in Tel Aviv where he was).So it doesn't affect him. It only affects his innocent relatives or another innocent Avraham Rosenfeld who may be mistaken for him.
So the score is: People helped - 0; Innocent People hurt - who knows?
The most irresponsible thing of all is that they have multiple entries for "predators" without posting their picture. Besides the fact that the key shaming that they want to do is to post the villains mug on to the Net for everyone to see, so what do they gain by pictureless posts? But there is a very serious issue here. And let's take one entry as the prime example - a confirmed offender named Avraham Rosenfeld.
There are six Avraham Rosenfelds in the Jerusalem Chareidi phonebook and these are just the married people with phones. And this doesn't include Bnei Brak or Kiryat Sefer or anywhere out of the Jerusalem area. If you don't show his picture, how do we determine the correct Avraham Rosenfeld and avoid mixing him up with the incorrect AR? Do you know how much damage this can cause to totally innocent people?
Let's go one step further and ask what is accomplished with this particular "shaming" (along with many of the others). Is it protecting anybody? Well, as long as this fellow is in jail (as noted), he is not a threat to anybody on the outside. Should he be released from jail, this is still totally worthless because there is no picture of him and not even a place of last residence (and he certainly will not be back in the school in Tel Aviv where he was).So it doesn't affect him. It only affects his innocent relatives or another innocent Avraham Rosenfeld who may be mistaken for him.
So the score is: People helped - 0; Innocent People hurt - who knows?
Bottom line is that Jewish Community Watch is dedicated
to shaming, hurting, and punishing whoever they set their sights on and making
sure not to fix anyone who may be fixable. Actually they prevent this. And they don’t really care who else
gets hurt in the process, even some of those they claim they are trying to
protect. (See my post about Victim Turned Predator). I devoted a special post (HERE) to explain why this approach is not too effective.
Jewish Community Watch has certainly taken a more
active role in our episode. As
mentioned, our suspect has a prominent spot as one of very few females on their
Wall of Shame. But, despite all the Halachos I discuss that seem meaningless to them and
despite the futility of this needless Chillul Hashem and despite the fact that
nobody in Australia is in any danger from this person no matter what, they
could not rest.
At a time when the forbidden extradition process seemed
deadlocked, and the newspapers were silent, JCW (see HERE) very valiantly paid megabucks (of their donors' money??) to have somebody follow this woman with a video camera for 200 hours to catch
her doing what?
Doing absolutely nothing! Riding buses, buying things, writing checks,
talking on her cell phone. All this just to show the world that she is fit to be sent to
Australia where she is no threat to anybody! 200 hours of being normal and not
a single minute of molesting anybody!
Well, of course all the newspapers woke up and the
police took action and Shana Aaronson and Manny Waks got great video shoots, and
the war is back on and the Chillul Hashem perpetuated. Three Cheers for
JCW!
Essentially, Mrs. Leifer is now sitting in jail in Neve Tirtza accused of being capable of riding buses and using her cell phone. And I and my fellow Israeli citizens are paying for this.
Essentially, Mrs. Leifer is now sitting in jail in Neve Tirtza accused of being capable of riding buses and using her cell phone. And I and my fellow Israeli citizens are paying for this.
It is by their hand.
No question that Jewish Community Watch is a very misguided
organization, but who is misguiding them?
Well, their key players are two very devoted and very
hot-blooded individuals. Meyer Seewald in the US and Shana Aaronson, the Chief Operating
Officer here in Eretz Yisrael. True heroes for our long suffering victims –
oops, I mean, survivors. But we must assume that these avenging angels are
paragons of virtue and wouldn’t lift a finger without exemplary guidance from
great Torah authorities.
Let's recall that Dassi Erlich wrote in the initial post that this "is going way way way too far". This episode is getting messier and messier and
the Chillul Hashem is getting stronger and stronger and we have the wizards at
JCW to thank.
Wizard? Well, who is the man behind the curtain? Who is the great Torah authority?
His name is Rabbi Yosef Blau. Yes, I am talking about
the senior Mashgiach
ruchani at Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary. He is also the
president of the Religious Zionists of America.(Wikipedia).
It is by his hand.
It is by his hand.
Rabbi Blau is on the Board of Directors. But he also has some elves. If you check out the JCW Advisory Board we find some
other very distinguished people who must be advising them. These include:
· Rabbi Elchonon
Tauber – the dayan of Hancock Park in Los Angeles, California.
· Rabbi Moshe
Soloveitchik – the president of the Merkaz HaRabanim of Chicago.
על פיהם יהיה כל ריב וכל נגע!
Apart from JCW, I have a lot of respect for all of these people. They are all genuine Orthodox Rabbis and are all older than I am. Amazingly, I have in some way crossed paths with all of them in previous years.
Apart from JCW, I have a lot of respect for all of these people. They are all genuine Orthodox Rabbis and are all older than I am. Amazingly, I have in some way crossed paths with all of them in previous years.
As concerns Rabbi Tauber, Shlita, I shared a ride with
him from Yerushalayim to Ben Gurion Airport about twenty years ago. We had a
wonderful conversation about dayanus and Choshen Mishpat. As for Rabbi
Soloveitchik, I once heard a shiur from him in Rabbi Karno’s shul in Chicago
when I spent a summer bein hazmanim there visiting relatives.
And Rabbi Blau?
Aside from attending the same yeshiva as his son,
Binny, some four decades ago and being a chavrusa to his nephew from Elizabeth
at the same time and place, I must add that my aishes chayal used to be one of
Rebetzin Dr. Rivkah Blau’s [Shaarei] Bnos Chayil. (The best one, in fact.)
So we have some very prominent Rabbanim behind this
monstrosity. Everything they damage, hurt and ruin is by their hand. And
every bit of this Chillul Hashem.
There is only one thing that Dassi Erlich says that I
can fully agree with. This thing “is going way way way too far”. How
do Rabbi Blau and Rabbi Tauber and Rabbi Soloveitchik justify it?
בא וראה כמה קשה המחלוקת שהרי ב"ד של מטה אין עונשין אלא עד שיביא שתי שערות וב"ד של מעלה עד כ' שנה וכאן אבדו אף יונקי שדים
Rabbi Yosef Blau, LOY”T, is somewhere around 80 years
old. הרב בלוי
שפקח הוא, מה ראה לשטות זה? And likewise for Rabbi Tauber and Rabbi
Soloveitchik.
Where will you be when the earth splits open?
Please stop this madness. It will only get worse. I
cannot see how it will end well for anybody at all. Not for the Sappers, not
for the Leifers, not for yourselves and not for me.
Just do it. Please.
It’s all by your
hand.
Update to Previous Post - Earlier this week I received a phone call from the leasing company of the car I damaged. The woman said that their shammai (appraiser) conceded that they were not authorized to use an original part and they will accept my offer for NIS 765. I settled it on the phone with 3 credit card payments.
Update to Previous Post - Earlier this week I received a phone call from the leasing company of the car I damaged. The woman said that their shammai (appraiser) conceded that they were not authorized to use an original part and they will accept my offer for NIS 765. I settled it on the phone with 3 credit card payments.
3 comments:
I had not planned to get involved with this issue, as I wasn't following from the beginning and I agree with a lot that you have written. However, as the implication of this post is that distinguished talmidei chachamim have encouraged a capital crime (mesirah), I believe this is not accurate, and those who have argued so far have not answered the points raised in the blog, I felt it necessary to speak up. Excuse me for being lengthy.
Firstly the points that I agree with: 1) Mrs. Leifer is not a rodef and presents no current threat to anyone. 2) She deserves a fair trial, and is innocent until proven guilty. 2) She also has a right to have her claims heard in court in Israel before extradition is considered. 3) Extradition should not be taken lightly, and should not be done unless it is absolutely necessary.
Now here's where I disagree:
1) Readers probably wondered why mesirah (handing someone over to non-Jewish authorities) should be such a severe crime. Correct me if I am wrong, but the 'why' question does not seem to have been raised in the blog.
The Rosh (Bava Kama 10:27) explains that a moser is a rodef, as once someone falls into the hands of the non-Jews they will have no mercy on him, and eventually kill him. It therefore follows that even if we are dealing with a criminal, it is strictly forbidden to hand him over to non-Jews.
Now you may think that nothing has changed, and the Australian courts are similar to the non-Jews in the times of the gemara. I believe that this is not the case, and therefore mesirah is no longer a capital crime. It is still strictly forbidden to hand someone over to those who will damage him for no reason, but if we are dealing with a criminal who will only get what he deserves, and our own courts are not capable of enforcing this, it is ok to use the non-Jewish ones.
2) The prohibition of 'lo sasgir' refers to returning a Jewish slave back to his master in chutz la'aretz. It does not apply to anyone who will not be enslaved. Nevertheless, forcing a Jew out of Eretz Yisrael is not something to be taken lightly (even leaving voluntarily is allowed only for a good reason).
3) Non-jewish governments, like Jewish ones, do have the right to impose fair punishments beyond those mentioned in the Torah. Even when someone poses no current danger, if he or she gets away with crimes committed in the past this encourages a situation of 'a man swallowing up his fellow.' Therefore, someone guilty of crimes reasonably proscribed by the law of the land, even if they do not involve direct Torah transgressions, may legitimately be imprisoned by the relevant authorities. One who aids this process is not a moser.
4) I don't know a lot about extradition, but my assumption is that the idea behind it is that a court based in the country where a crime took place is better equipped to rule on it. If a terrorist murdered people in Tel-Aviv (or committed a less severe crime) and fled to Australia, I imagine the Israeli government would (justifiably) not be so happy about letting the Australian courts dealing with it. We cannot expect this to happen if we do not act similarly. Thus there may be grounds for extradition in some cases, dependent on whatever we have agreed to in the treaty (I do not know what this is).
My conclusion is that it was appropriate for the Israeli authorities to arrest Mrs. Liefer. Her case must be heard here, and all the above factors should be taken into account when deciding what should be done.
Even one who disagrees with some or all of what I have written should be capable of understanding that those Rabbis who agree with me are not necessarily 'thinking like goyim.'
I fully agree with your "confession" in your opening line that you were not following from the beginning, and I do not have the time or energy to go over things that I have already written in previous posts.
I dealt with most of your concerns in number 1 in this post:
achaslmaala.blogspot.com/2015/09/mesira-iv-mesira-vs-lashon-hara-whats.html
As for 2, I originally brought it up in:
http://achaslmaala.blogspot.com/2016/06/mesira-xiii-thinking-like-jew.html
3 and 4 do not relate to my blogs because I am not discussing what governments can or cannot do, only what Torah observant Jewish citizens can or cannot do.
Thank you for having the 'time and energy' to direct me to the places where you 'dealt with my concerns.' You are right that I hadn't seen the first post you linked to now, although now that I have seen it I fail to see how it addresses even one of my concerns. Obviously I must be lacking in intelligence, please forgive me.
With regards to lo sasgir, as it happens I did already see the 'thinking like a jew' post. I was just pointing out the fundamental flaw in your argument there, as the issur only applies to someone who will return to enslavement (in case that wasn't clear enough, forcing either an eved c'naani or a Jew to leave Eretz Yisrael does not fall under this prohibition if on his return he will not be enslaved again).
You might think that 3 and 4 do not relate to your blogs, but this is wrong. What Torah observant Jewish citizens can or cannot do is dependent on what governments can or cannot do, especially when it comes to mesira. Mesira is only relevant when the authorities that the nimsar is given to will impose punishments that they have no right to do.
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