Techeiles 4 - Adama V’Shamayim

Author’s note – This post is a continuation of the series on techeiles which was presented back in 2018. To appreciate this post, it is highly recommended to at least see the opening post of the series (HERE). The other two posts are available HERE and HERE.



I all but abandoned my series on techeiles but it deserves some closure.

The series began in August 2018 after I wrote in a post that one of my sons is a techeiles enthusiast. The only comments I received to that post came from an anonymous (how brave!) gentleman who asserted that two well-respected poskim have rejected today’s techeiles – Murex trunculus – so therefore, it cannot be techeiles. He neglected to acknowledge that others have accepted it (or, at least, declined to rule it out).

The more vocal of these two well-respected poskim, Harav Yisroel Reisman, Shlita of Brooklyn, has gone so far to claim that, in his opinion, there is a 0% chance that the Murex trunculus is the true Talmudic techeiles – or so this commenter claimed. For the sake of accuracy, after reviewing his recorded shiur from June, 2011 and it seems that Harav Reisman only attributed the extreme non-probability of 0% to the Rambam. Nevertheless, he is clearly applying this 0% figure from the Rambam to his own shita.

Harav Reisman’s key contention is that the properties of the Murex snail do not “shtim with Chazal” and therefore it must be ruled out. This prompted me to open a series of discussions about how are we to understand puzzling aspects of Chazal and what exactly are the standards of “shtimming” with Chazal?

The opening post of the series – a must read – was the introduction to the topic. It pointed out how Chazal are so literal in their discussions that they commonly base Halachic opinions on Aggadic literature even though the Aggadic literature can be deemed to be “fanciful”.

The second post pointed out that, in many instances, there is quite a bit of room to question what exactly was it that Chazal said? When we see conflicting versions of the words of Chazal and disputes on “facts” among members of Chazal themselves, we are never left with a precise statement to use as a baseline for “shtimming”.

The third post illustrated how we must inevitably conclude that Chazal were not precise when it comes to numbers, sizes and distances. There is a great amount of exaggeration. This was written in October 2018 and there I paused. I have not written about this topic since.

I have been meaning to get back to it and close the series but I let myself get sidetracked. With the “Messianic fever” that has come along with the Corona outbreak, perhaps the time has come to get back to it.

This post will deal with the touchiest issue of all – how much can we rely on Chazal’s portrayal of the natural sciences, particularly zoology and biology? How well did Chazal understand natural phenomena, anatomy and reproduction? How do we deal with statements of Chazal that clearly do not “shtim” with what we know today?

Much of this discussion was the basis of the great “Slifkin” controversy that goes back about 15 years. Rav Natan Slifkin wrote several books that worked very hard to reconcile these conflicts. He brought up many questions of incongruency between Chazal and observable phenomenon that had been hitherto swept under the rug.

For this he was strongly censured by many Torah scholars for having the audacity to question the “accuracy” of Chazal – unjustly so, in my opinion. One renowned Torah authority is quoted to have said, “His Torah is not Torah, and his science is not science”. Well and good, but this did not answer any of the questions or resolve any of the conflicts.

If I understand correctly, his fundamental position is that Chazal did not always mean for their statements to be taken literally despite that they actually base many Halachos on their assertions, and that they were no more advanced in the natural sciences than were the secular philosophers and scientists of their times. Their opinions on phenomenon that could not be observed or studied was based on the prevailing theory, traditions and even mythology or legend and not solely on ruach hakodesh. As such, they were not always right.

In short, Chazal and empirical science – i.e., astronomy, zoology, and biology – do not always shtim.

In my previous post, I was talking about raw numbers and maybe we should pick up right where we left off. We were discussing how it is not possible that the Land of Israel as delineated in the Torah can be 400 parsaos by 400 parsaos. And, in fact, there is no real source for this.

But the gemara does give these dimensions to some other parts of the globe and here we will travel to Pesachim 94a. The gemara tells us:

Mitzrayim (Egypt) is 400 parsaos by 400 parsaos, and Egypt is one sixtieth of Kush (Ethiopia), and Kush is one sixtieth of “the world”… (it continues into Gan Eden and Gehinnom but we won’t go there – right now – I hope).

If you recall, we calculated a parsah to be about four Km. Thus, 400 parsaos are 1600 Km. 1600 Km squared comes to 2.56 million Km². Hence, the Mitzrayim that is being referred to is 2.56 million Km². The Kush being referred to is 60 times greater and must then be about 153.6 million Km². Perhaps Kush is meant to include Mitzrayim just like “the world” must also include Kush.

We certainly don’t know the borders of Mitzrayim and Kush at the time of this Chazal but let’s work with what we do know. It’s amazing how all of this trivial information is at our fingertips on Google.

Today’s Egypt is listed at 1.01 million Km². This is merely 40% of the 2.56 million that it should be but, if we need to, it’s not that hard to find another 1.5 million Km² in the general vicinity. Today’s Ethiopia is a tad bigger than today’s Egypt at 1.104 Km² but this is only 10% bigger and not 6000% (sixty times) as it should be.

Well, maybe Kush is meant to be all of the African continent? Does this help?

This is a bit closer since total Africa is 30.37 million Km². But even so, the entire African continent is only 30 times bigger than today’s Egypt, not 60, and it’s only 11.8 times bigger than the Egypt of Chazal. Moving right along, the entire surface of the planet Earth sizes up at 510 million Km². This is merely 16.8 times the size of the African continent or about one eighth of what it should be according to our premise that Kush is all of Africa. And the world area is only 18% (less than one fifth) of what it should be according to the gemara in Pesachim.

Now, of course, many of us are aware of the Maharsha in Brachos 57b that tells us that when the gemara says one sixtieth, it is not being exact. It merely means that just as one sixtieth is recognized as the shiur of bitul – a quantity that is so insignificant in relation to the whole that we can consider it negligable – likewise, these territories are so insignificant in size in comparison to the host territory that they don’t even count. Problem is that it is not really feasible to look at today’s Egypt (40% of Chazal’s), which is 1/30^th  (3.3%) of Africa, or Africa itself, which is the second largest land mass on Earth comprising 1/5 of Earth’s land and 6% or 1/16 of the world surface including the oceans, as being insignificant (batel b’shishim).

Okay, okay. We already discussed exaggerated numbers in our last post. Why am I repeating it?

The problem is not only the numbers of square Km, but a general issue of how Chazal understand the “layout” of our planet and how it relates to other celestial bodies. Or what is known as Astronomy.

All of the observable information that we have today points to the following:

·       The Earth is a sphere

·       The sun is stationary in relation to the Earth.

·       The Earth rotates on its axis while the sun stays in place thus giving us the appearance that the sun moves across the sky.

·       The Earth revolves around the sun in an elliptical orbit that positions the northern part of the world closer to the sun in the northern summer months and the southern part of the world closer to the sun in northern winter months.

·       The heavens of the physical world (not the spiritual world) are just a vast expanse of space that surrounds our planet and other planets, solar systems, galaxies, etc. It is not a blanket or covering of our planet. There is no evidence that it is dome shaped.

These “facts” have basically been proven by eclipses (Aristotle), air and space travel and photography, international communication, light refraction laws, and common sense. In today’s world these phenomena have been almost universally accepted as fact by the majority of mankind with very few dissenters.

In days of yore, for lack of current technology, our power of observation was much more limited. From our lowly position, the world does not appear as a sphere. It does not appear to move. We stand still on the ground and watch heavenly bodies move around. For lack of speedy travel and communication, nobody was able to determine how far the world goes. We think that the sun rises for the whole world and sets for the whole world. When the sun rises in Jerusalem, it is also rising in Rome and in Persia and Asia. When it sets for us, it sets for everyone.

This is what most people thought in the ancient world and all the evidence points out that this is what Chazal believed as well. Those who thought otherwise were the “lunatics”. To qualify this, we don’t have to go anywhere. We can stay right here in Pesachim 94a where we opened this discussion.

The gemara continues to tell us that the entire civilized world is positioned under a single star. To validate this, the gemara claims that anywhere one travels in the world, he can look up and see this star (the star does not seem to be identified). The gemara seems to challenge this with a mild variation that the whole of civilization is positioned between Taurus and Scorpio.

This gemara seems to indicate a total lack of acknowledgment of any kind of Southern hemisphere and civilization beneath the equator – or that there even is an equator.

As the gemara continues (94b), the gemara discusses two disputes between the Jewish philosophers and those of other nations. The first is about whether the stars are affixed to the dome of the sky and the dome moves and brings the stars along or the stars are not affixed and they move on their own while the dome stays still. This clearly indicates that both opinions held that the Earth is stationary and the fixed stars move around (we are not talking about the other planets).

The second dispute is about where does the sun go at the end of the day. The Jewish scholars hold that when it sets in the west, it ducks up behind the “rekiah” which is understood to be some kind of opaque blanket or canopy that covers the Earth. The United Nations scholars maintain that it goes underneath the Earth and heats up the water. Amazingly, Rebbe (Yehudah HaNasi) rules in favor of the non-Jewish scholars because we can see that the water becomes boiling hot overnight. Rashi says the proof is that in the mornings we see “smoke” on the rivers.

This clearly indicates that both sides maintained that the Earth is flat like a dish. At night the sun is cooking the barren underside of the world. Neither side can imagine that the sun moves to the other side of the world courtesy of the rotation of the Earth. Nobody dreams that when the sun is setting in Jerusalem (or Pumbadisa), it is up in the sky at high noon in New York. When it is midnight in Jerusalem, it is high noon in Honolulu.

Nobody dreams that it rises or sets other places on the Earth at different times that are hours apart and that when it is 6 am in one place, it is 6 pm in another. They maintain that when it rises at 6 am it rises for the whole world and it is 6 am in the whole world; and when it sets at 6 pm it sets for the whole world and it is 6 pm in the whole world. There are no time zones and there is no need for a Halachic date line.

So Chazal do not give us a clue how to determine an Halachic dateline and the matter is not even brought up by any Jewish scholar until the Baal HaMaor (cute, no?) broaches the issue in the 13^th century.

Back to our gemara in Pesachim 94b, the gemara goes on to quote a Braitha in the name of Rabi Nosson that:

In the summer, the sun is high in the sky and therefore the entire world is hot (the air temperature) and the water is cold. In the winter, the sun is low in the sky and therefore the entire world is cold (the air temperature) and the water is boiling hot.

This means that in the summer the sun is high so its heat affects the higher element which is the air on top of the surface. The water is further down so it does not get the heat from the sun in the summer. Hence, the water stays cold. In the winter the sun is low so its heat affects the lower element which is the water. It does not really affect the atmospheric air so the air gets cold.

Note that the fact that daylight and the sun are around for much longer in the summer and much shorter in the winter plays no part in this.

Both of these statements are in line with the belief that the total land mass of Earth is like the exposed top of an apple that is floating in the middle of a bowl of water with Eretz Yisrael smack in the middle. The great ocean is the “mayim hatachtonim” that both surrounds and goes under the Earth. The sky covers it like the cover of the entrée dish in a fancy restaurant. (This is how it is described in Teshuvos Chavos Yair 219.)

The sun rises for the whole mass and sets for the whole mass, so there are no time zones and no need for a Halachic dateline. It passes over the top of it, high in the summer and low in the winter, and at night, it reverses direction and goes back to its starting point either by taking the “high road” above and outside the “dish cover” concealed from view, or it takes the “low road” under the “bowl” and cooks all the water.

None of this will work and none is necessary if we know that the Earth is a sphere. Actually, the Yerushalmi in Avoda Zara does say the world is a sphere. But the Bavli seems to think it’s a dish. Perhaps we can explain this by saying that Eretz Yisrael was under the dominion of Rome who was the successor of Greece. As such, in Eretz Yisrael, even the Jewish scholars were aware of the more advanced Greek sciences. Conversely, Bavel was dominated by Persia and their astronomy was not as advanced. The Jewish scholars of Bavel pandered to the Persian “what-you-see-is-what-you-get” philosophy.

According to the round-Earth theory, the sun is busy cooking Hawaii when it’s night in Israel (which it certainly is) and is not cooking the water below ground. It seems that Chazal had not yet mastered the laws of calorics and heat exchange. Air temperature changes very quickly. Water temperature does not. Thus, in a summer day, the air temperature may start at 40°F at dawn and reach 80°F at noon and down to 70°F by sundown. The water starts at 60°F but won’t change much until the sun goes down and things cool anyway. But it won’t cool as fast either and so it will stay at 60°F day and night.

As such, when the day begins the air is 40°F and the water is 60°F so people think water is warm. Hey, it’s a lot warmer than the air. By noon, the air is 80°F and the water is still 60°F so all of a sudden, the water is freezing. Next morning the 60°F water is warm again in the 40°F air. It must have gotten cooked overnight, and what can cook it but the sun?

But the truth is that there were no thermometers in those days. The water temperature barely changed. Only the air temperature changed.

So Chazal tell us that the sun goes underneath the world and heats the water.

What is the Halachic ramification of all this?

Well, we already discussed the necessity (or not) of a Halachic dateline. But, in addition, many Rishonim, with Rashi at the helm, attribute this sun-low-in-the-sky (or cooks-the-wells-at-night) theory as the reason for the puzzling Halacha that the matzos of Pesach can only be made using water that sat out overnight – מים שלנו – and not water that was freshly drawn from a well. Since the sun warms up well water at night, the early morning water is warm and will “leavenate” the dough.

Other Rishonim give explanations to the opposite extreme assuming that fresh well water is very cold and its coldness is the problem. Maharam Hallavah says that when one mixes something very cold into another substance at room temperature, the sudden coldness causes the second substance to generate some latent heat and this is what will cause the flour to “leavenate”.  

Perhaps the root of the dispute is that Rashi and his colleagues view the Bavli flat Earth theory as “Halacha l’maaseh” and Maharam Hallavah maintains the more contemporary (or Yerushalmi) round Earth theory.

In any case, it is known that HRHG Rav Moshe Sternbuch, Shlita was the Chief Rabbi of South Africa and he was asked whether there is a need forמים שלנו  to make matzos in S. Africa? After all, the sun was high in the sky all the past months?

I am told he ruled that they still need מים שלנו to satisfy the Maharam Hallavah. But, what would Rashi pasken if he was asked?

It goes without saying that very likely there are other esoteric and metaphysical explanations for these divrei Chazal that are not affected by modern developments. Still and all, it is very difficult to contend that Chazal were more advanced in the physical world than the rest of mankind. There are just too many things that we can see today that don’t “shtim” with Chazal.

The astronomical sciences are not going to influence our analysis of the Murex trunculus too much. I really wanted to discuss what Chazal understood about living organisms – biology, zoology, and anatomy. This part was just the opener. When I started writing this post, I did not anticipate I would expend so much ink on the Earth and Water.

We’ll continue in the next post which I really hope will not take another two years (hopefully not even another two weeks).

See you then.